Post whole 30 recovery

I hope you're feeling better soon, @jazzapple. Maybe try bland and easy on the veggie volume for a minute, the kinds of things people eat when they have the stomach flu. Broth, Jell-o, saltine crackers, and whatnot just to let it settle down.

Thanks all! Appreciate it. And happy, I hope that cure works in Australia!

My stomach is still a mess and I've convinced myself it's the gluten/dairy/sugar. Yikes. I'm still eating pretty much whole 30 meals with some added sugar here and there. I'm wondering if it's the damn cauliflower, not the gluten dairy sugar. That's actually more likely. I don't want to cut out things unnecessarily and just create more stomach problems for me down the road by not eating any of it, but my stomach is so painful all the time that I just feel at a loss.

I ate a very small piece of bread yesterday and my stomach is a mess this morning so I started to think it was the bread, but then I realized yesterday my stomach was a mess all day, regardless of the bread! I'm just getting really tired of this and I want things to go back to normal. Honestly I wish I didn't do the whole 30. I loved it when I was doing it, for the most part, but now I'm in such a weird spot. Ah well--can't go back, I can only learn from this experience.

Hi! Yes I did recommend them to Happy. I take them with meals that are more protein heavy. I’m not sure if mine have HCL in them, I’ll have to check. I use DigestAid. The only down side is it’s like nearly 100 bucks for 180 tablets.

Another thing you can use is Apple cider vinegar which acts like a digestive enzyme but is cheap as chips. Get it with the mother. Take about a tablespoon in some water before meals - just try once a day before your biggest meal.

I look digestive enzymes when I went from 3 years of heavily restricting foods to eating more freely. I took the Webber Naturals Complete Digestive Enzymes (https://webbernaturals.com/en-ca/product/complete-digestive-enzymes/). I'm in Canada and have no idea if these are available internationally. These were recommended to me because they contained a balance of digestive enzymes for each of the macro groups (carbs, proteins and fats) so I would be covering my basis with them. I took one with each meal (breakfast, lunch and dinner). I only needed one bottle of them (180 capsules which lasted me about 2 months).

I did take them and they seemed to help some, but almost immediately stopped helping :( I learned that I'm low on HCL and took that when I ate protein for a short time which helped me a ton and now I don't need to take any more. There is a system you use to determine if you're low on HCL, which is stomach acid and most people have too much, not too little. But you can tell if you need it and how much by taking one pill with 6oz of protein, then two up to seven. If you don't get heartburn, you need them. If you get them at 4 pills but not 3, you need three, etc. I don't think a lot of people need it but I did.

Another huge help for my digestion was L-Glutamine. It reconstructs stomach lining for those of us with autoimmune issues and has been a huge help with zero side effects. I'm the digestion queen I swear to God

On another note (that should be going in my journal but I'm here) they're finding a cure for celiac in Australia that is at level 2 testing right now. PLEASE. WORK.

It seems like @happyme used digestive enzymes not that long ago, maybe something @Jess recommended?

Skwigg, I will look into the digestive enzymes. My baseline digestion is problematic anyway, so I think they could help. Does anyone take them/can recommend a brand?

I know you are definitely right that it's never a choice between one or the other, but in my head it totally is. I've separated the two, to the point that I do feel a sense of guilt when I'm eating bread or cheese or whatever, OR more often, it's like, ah, well I've "messed up" already. I don't go on a binge or anything, but I do get a mental sense at least that I'm "off track." Why do we have to be on track or off track?? Why can't we just BE?

I like the idea of the eggs AND the oatmeal/toast/cereal, the meat and veggies AND the rice. That's where I've struggled in the past--making room for all foods. I think when I was doing whole 30 I felt somewhat proud of having the willpower to give these things up. I felt superior, which feels icky to admit, but it's true. I felt like I finally had the control to not eat sugar or bread or peanut butter. That's not the intent of the whole 30, and I know that's leftover eating disorder gunk. Eating those things doesn't have to be attached to morality or self worth. It's just food, it's not your identity.

I did feel really good with the whole 30 because I was finally eating big satisfying meals. But I don't think I had a really accurate "before" comparison, because I wasn't really eating meals. So I don't think it can truly be attributed to cutting out specific foods, I think it was more from actually eating meals. I think I have to give normal balanced meals (including things that I previously cut out) a true shot and see how I feel--my sense is that I'll feel just as good as on the whole 30, if not better.

Skwigg, thank you so much for this amazingly comprehensive/thorough responsive. I didn't sleep well and had a very long day so am not quite thinking straight but I will respond too once I am feeling better!

So I didn't really follow the whole 30 reintroduction very well. Kind of immediately reintroduced sugar, grains, and dairy. One night we made this baked mac and cheese with three kinds of cheese and milk. Yikes. Needless to say, had some pretty significant digestive issues the next day.

When you restrict whole food groups, you can temporarily lose the ability to digest whole food groups because you no longer have the necessary enzymes. Elimination diets can create this problem, they don't fix it. Adding digestive enzyme supplements can help. Reintroducing "problem" foods in small doses more frequently can help.

I vacillate between wanting to eat whole 30ish and then wanting to eat a "regular" diet--with sugar, starchy carbs, cheese, etc.

It's never a choice between one or the other, all plants and animals or all cheesy starch and sugar. It's finding your own feel-good ratio between the two. The ratio can certainly change with time and circumstance.

But I do notice a difference when I eat eggs versus oatmeal in the mornings. When I eat oatmeal and head into work, I feel like I could fall asleep at my desk, and it's not that way when I have a higher protein/fat breakfast.

It's also so important to eat balanced meals - the eggs AND the oatmeal, not one or the other. Maybe you eat a lot of eggs and veggies and a little bowl of cereal or piece of toast, in the morning. Then you're not missing out on anything and not falling asleep from carb overload. Same with having plenty of meat and veggies and a little baked mac & cheese in a meal. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

The middle ground is always best, moderation, etc.. I just have a really hard time with that. Because when I finally give myself "permission" to eat peanut butter, I go overboard, and end up throwing half the jar away because I don't trust myself with it. I was reading what skwigg was saying about not having any food off limits, but that one seems to be really challenging for me still.

It's challenging thanks to restriction. You want to overeat it when you get your hands on it because you "know" you shouldn't have it, can't be trusted, and are probably going to have to throw it away, so the urge to eat as much as possible now becomes very strong. It makes the food seem special and dangerous. It creates a scarcity mindset. Nobody moderates well under those conditions. If you had to put peanut butter on every single thing you ate at every meal for the next month, you'd be like "f%#$k peanut butter." You could have cases of it sitting around with no interest in overeating it, or maybe ever eating it again. Ice cream was a super trigger food for me until I set out to taste every flavor of Ben & Jerry's. I just wrote about that somewhere. Eating all flavors of ice cream often made me much more indifferent and snobbish about ice cream. I won't eat something marginal now, and only need a few bites of something super-premium, where I used to finish every container of ice cream I ever opened regardless of how it tasted. It's an abundance mindset and habituation versus a scarcity mindset and placing foods on a pedestal.

I was reading someone wrote about how the majority of people can't eat freely--that to maintain the body they want they will always have to diet or restrict in some way. I'm really not sure that's the case, and I would hate to think that it is.

This made me snort-laugh because that was me! Absolutely, I've said that, written that, believed that, preached that. ME!!! I thought moderation was only for weak, fat, crybaby losers. Anybody who cares about health and fitness needs to diet. I was wrong, simple as that. People don't know what they don't know. We all project our own worst fears, and we're all totally immersed in diet culture.

What really gets me about that statement is that the dieting and restricting only caused me to gain more weight when I rebounded--so while they got me thin initially, in the long run it messed everything up, metabolism, weight, digestion, energy, sleep, etc.

And that's what finally wakes people up from the diet mentality. It doesn't work. It isn't awesome. It becomes impossible to claim that it's a solution when it's causing more problems than it solves.

So I didn't really follow the whole 30 reintroduction very well. Kind of immediately reintroduced sugar, grains, and dairy. One night we made this baked mac and cheese with three kinds of cheese and milk. Yikes. Needless to say, had some pretty significant digestive issues the next day.

I vacillate between wanting to eat whole 30ish and then wanting to eat a "regular" diet--with sugar, starchy carbs, cheese, etc. In the past when I've eaten more starchy carbs I get lethargic and sleepy, and I never really felt that way on the whole 30. I feel like when I eat more whole 30 meals I have a sense of resentment. I don't really want to--I want yogurt and peanut butter and chocolate and baked goods. But I do notice a difference when I eat eggs versus oatmeal in the mornings. When I eat oatmeal and head into work, I feel like I could fall asleep at my desk, and it's not that way when I have a higher protein/fat breakfast.

So I'm not sure how to proceed from here. The middle ground is always best, moderation, etc.. I just have a really hard time with that. Because when I finally give myself "permission" to eat peanut butter, I go overboard, and end up throwing half the jar away because I don't trust myself with it. I was reading what skwigg was saying about not having any food off limits, but that one seems to be really challenging for me still.

I was reading someone wrote about how the majority of people can't eat freely--that to maintain the body they want they will always have to diet or restrict in some way. I'm really not sure that's the case, and I would hate to think that it is. What really gets me about that statement is that the dieting and restricting only caused me to gain more weight when I rebounded--so while they got me thin initially, in the long run it messed everything up, metabolism, weight, digestion, energy, sleep, etc.

Thanks, skwigg, I appreciate the warm welcome back! I think you're absolutely right about there being some positive takeaways. I definitely don't fear fat anymore like I used to. I sauté and roast veggies in oil, and don't skimp on that. I also did really enjoy adding in a lot of veggies, and even some new combinations. Although there's a misconception that it involves eating a ton of meat, a lot of my meals were very vegetable-based, with meat added in.

The idea of forbidden foods is hard for me too. Even telling myself that I can't have certain foods (without even taking that action) raises some level of anxiety.

Yesterday I kind of added in things that I had been missing, like yogurt, peanut butter, chocolate, and grains. I baked a vegan banana bread with oat flour and had it with two of my meals. I didn't feel lethargic or brain foggy or whatever they say happens. I felt great and fine and normal. I have never been one to go overboard on the carbs, so I don't really feel nervous about going overboard on bread and chips.

I do worry about sweets a little bit. But I also think about something my mom said when I was talking to her about the whole 30, and breaking emotional ties with food etc. She said to me, "But when I want a cookie, I want it because it tastes good, not because I'm sad. Cookies are just good!" It was a really funny moment, and a moment of big clarity. Going back to the joy of food is always a nice place to return.

Skwigg you're right--I thought it would revolutionize my life, I'd lose 15 pounds, be drinking bulletproof coffee forever (yikes), rainbows and unicorns. That wasn't the reality. I enjoyed it when I was doing it, but I'd rather operate somewhere in the middle rather than at either extreme.

No need to slink! Whole 30 probably is a step up from yogurt and carrots in terms of eating satisfying meals, buying and cooking real food, eating enough. I can imagine you did take away some good concepts. I've never done Whole 30 but I've done paleo, which is similar. If I just play around with paleo-inspired meal ideas, there's no problem. When I did 30 days strict with no grains or sugar, I went bonkerdoodles at the end. I practically lived on bread, pasta, and cookies for a couple of weeks until I calmed down about them not going anywhere.

The good news is that the "bakery phase" wears off. Then you can think about what you really enjoyed and found helpful about that way of eating. For me, it was more fat and more flavor, roasted things, chicken skin, egg yolks, fish, nuts, veggie dishes that tasted absolutely amazing thanks to being prepared with fat, like bacon and greens or brussels sprouts. Yum!

What didn't work for me was the idea of forbidden or off-limits foods. That brings on a scarcity mindset. Then I romanticize or feel out of control around certain foods. These foods may not even taste good or align with my values, but are suddenly exciting because I'm not supposed to have them. Know what I mean?

My advice is to keep the foundation of what was working for you (real food, satisfying meals) but to start adding back elements of what was lacking from that approach, like cheese, grains, beans, and treats. So, you take your standard Whole 30 meal and add a serving of brown rice, or a flour tortilla, or beans.

I think what you'll find is that your own feel-good way is somewhere in between Whole 30 and All the Bread. Mine was. I enjoy bagels, bakery buns, and footlong sub sandwiches once in awhile, but on most days, I prefer having my sandwich on a wrap, or my grass-fed burger patty bunless with cheese and sriracha ketchup on top. It doesn't feel good to eat large amounts of bread and pasta at every meal, so I don't do that. But if my meal is "low-carb" like an omelet or steak, I'll round it out with banana, chocolate, or potatoes. That does feel good.

Don't worry. I think it's probably good you tried this and realized it's not magic. There are good elements and bad. After reading all the hype, I was expecting a paleo miracle as well, and nothing happened. No change in weight, mood, energy, body comp, or blood work. Just a giant spike in cravings for sugar and baked goods. Oops! But it does level out and there are plenty of paleo elements I still enjoy. I eat a lot more whole foods, and I never went back to low-fat and 6-11 servings of grains a day, or whatever the standard recommendation is.