Dietitian visit; interesting

I researched so much about plant protein and was so confident that I was getting plenty, that deficiency was unheard of if you eat enough food overall. It just wasn’t true for me though. There has to be something to the absorption issues. Some people, especially younger ones, seem to have bodies that effectively utilize those essential amino acids no matter where they’re coming from. My body was like, nah.

Keep moving toward feeling good, whatever that looks like for you.

Thanks, @skwigg , these are great food ideas! What I am currently not super happy with is the amount of volume I have to eat, and relying on dairy and eggs over and over, because it is starting to become a chore, and it's only been 2 weeks. And being full is weird. But I think I'll probably get used to that, lol.

@sarah too I skipped ahead to the part of the podcast where they were talking about protein, and I wish it worked the way they were saying it does. Either I'm counting wrong, or there actually is an absorption issue, or something, because I imagine I would have felt well nourished on what I was eating before. I've always been told "If you eat enough calories, you'll get enough protein" (which, my calories are apparently fine because I'm not underweight). They also said the average American gets too much, about 1.6g/kg, which is definitely way more than what I get. Interesting, though.

I have thought about a second opinion just to see what they say. I do think most professionals are probably going to say 1500-1600ish calories with about 30g of protein per day that's not coming from grains/beans is not working. Probably.

You describe your previous feelings of being ravenous enough to eat shoes at lunch time and having a lifelong strong desire to keep eating more after dinner. This points to chronic underfeeding as much as or in addition to the issue of protein quality or absorption. So, yeah, normal every day satisfaction feels a whole lot like “meh, I could eat” but not particularly caring one way or the other. In my strong, healthy, well-nourished state, I am basically never stomach-growling hungry, never experiencing cravings or obsessive food thoughts. Part of that newfound satisfaction is meeting protein needs effectively, but an even bigger part of it is eating enough food overall. Being underfed over long periods of time will cause problems regardless.

You’re doing great getting more food. You have many options for how to do it. The important thing is that you’re feeling the benefits, and that you like the changes enough for them to be sustainable.

I’ve used nuts and nut butter as a protein source, lentils, bean soup, veggie burgers. They are more calorie-dense and often more volume, which can make it challenging to consume enough of these foods to meet your nutrition needs, but you can always combine them with your smaller animal/dairy proteins, like putting a blop of Greek yogurt on lentils as a sour cream alternative. Making Mexican food with beans and rice but including a little beef or fish. I love tuna melts with cheese, or you can roll a veggie dog in a flour tortilla with a little cheese. You can put nuts or seeds in yogurt or cottage cheese. You can hardboil eggs to make portable protein, or make protein bites with nut butter, protein powder, and other ingredients. There are ways to round out your proteins for more satisfaction and still get all the health benefits from plenty of plant proteins.

But yeah, liking what you eat and physically feeling good are top priority.

Yeah, I'm not feeling very happy eater-like at the moment, @sarah too , but I would like to have normal hair and nails and energy. I will check out the podcast. Thanks!

I just listened to a Rich Roll podcast with Christopher Gardner Ph.D who is a nutrition researcher and professor of Medicine at Stanford. I thought of you and your issues with nutrition and you may find it interesting if you're in to listening to podcasts. https://www.richroll.com/podcast/christopher-gardner-774/ Spoiler: he says we can get all the protein we need from plants and we actually don't need as much as people think (I've heard this from others too).

I'm wondering if a second opinion would be helpful. It sounds to me like this new style of eating you're trying isn't making you a "happy eater". I don't want to offend or presume but it seems like you're forcing it and perhaps another perspective from a different medical professional would provide some insight.

Update: things are mostly improving, I think? It's been about 10 days of fish oil, and I do feel less foggy-brained. I don't care if it's all in my head. I am able to actually finish tasks!

I tried to immediately go to 70g protein/day (the goal the dietitian gave me; about 55 are supposed to be from high quality egg, dairy, and protein powder sources) and it was hard on my digestion. So, I backed off after a few days and have been easing into it. I think my body maybe needs to learn to digest adequate amounts of protein, because it's not used to digesting much of it?

She wanted me to do a full cup of Greek yogurt, but that seems to be too much, so I scaled back to 3/4 c. for now, and she suggested 3/4 c. of cottage cheese, which also is pushing it, so I'm doing 1/2 c. for now. 1 egg plus 2 whites is a lot of volume, also hard for me, so now I' at 1 egg + 1 white, and will work my way up.

I have added 2 protein-rich snacks to my day. Smaller amounts more often seems to be easier on my stomach, although I don't find myself super hungry for either one. I have been having either string cheese and grapes, or cottage cheese and a few crackers mid morning, and my solution to not being able to eat at work is a smoothie! I drink water at work, so I realized I can also drink a smoothie. I am not hungry for it, but I feel a lack of energy, and it really helps. I am no longer ending my work day feeling totally exhausted and ready to eat anything I can get my hands on.

I think I am not used to being full? Is this how people feel every day? Maybe "meh, I could eat" kind of hungry, rather than "I'm about ready to eat my shoe" when it's lunchtime? This is extremely weird. Genuinely not wanting any more food after dinner is something I have never experienced in my adult life.

I can see that relying on only eggs, dairy, and protein powder is going to get old, and requires a lot of volume. So, I'm planning to add some animal protein in another week or so, once my stomach feels normal for days at a time. Maybe part of a can of tuna? Suggestions?

OK. Tried the whey protein. My stomach did NOT like that! I have never been so bloated in my life. I have had to take Gas-X pills, and it still isn't totally under control. I tried regular milk in cereal and there was some pain/gas/bloating but nothing like the whey. Holy moly.

I normally eat yogurt, kefir, and cheese several times a week with no issues, maybe the fermentation somehow makes it more digestible? Never a problem with those...

If you're in your 40's then it's also possible that some of your symptoms could be peri-menopause. But on the diet front, I'm with skwigg in that I eat a very high plant based diet but I do better overall with a bit of animal protein here and there. For me that's eggs, greek yogurt, cheese and the occasional burger. I would not be suprised that your digestive system is taking a bit of time to adjust to the new additions to your diet. Our gut biome is developed based on what we feed it. So if it hasn't been getting any eggs or dairy then the little microbes that are more compatible with that need time to adjust and multiply. And I realized skwigg just wrote the same thing! lol. So I'm basically just here to say I think you're on the right track and don't be discouraged and agreed that's not really a lot of extra food.

By bloating, do you mean stomach discomfort? Like gas or indigestion? Or just feeling puffy? Or full?

I am basically never hungry anymore. No empty hollow feelings, no growling. Sometimes I’m still a little full from the last meal when I’m eating my next snack, but that’s what I need to do to get enough protein, enough food, and to feel healthy and strong.

I think there is always an adjustment period when we change the way we eat, especially adding new foods. It can take a little time to develop the right digestive enzymes, and for hunger/fullness hormones to catch on to the new normal.

I used whey protein for about the last four months as an experiment. There may be a slight advantage in terms of absorption and muscle recovery, but I like the taste of the plant protein better and it’s cheaper, so I’m using that now. As long as there are plenty of other quality protein sources in my day, I feel great using either kind.

This is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much, @skwigg. It gives me hope that I can feel better and have energy again, too. I assume the bloating eventually went away?

I am taking 1280mg of fish oil, as recommened by the label. You need 2 capsules of this brand to equal that. I can't tolerate the prenatal vitamin (nausea) so she told me to take 2 Flintstones! So, 1 fish oil and 1 Flintstone, 2x/day. I am hoping to notice something in 2 weeks or so.

Another question, do you notice any difference (satiety, muscle recovery, something else?) between plan based protein powder and whey? I like unsweetened unflavored Vega (pea/rice combo) which is supposedly a complete amino acid profile, and I just got some Naked Whey, also unsweetened unflavored. I can't stand the stevia, monkfruit, etc. I expect this to taste like powdered milk?

Also, I name my plants :) Plant-consciousness is a helpful thought, actually.

Much appreciated, thanks again!

Fascinating. Yep, that all sounds very familiar to me. Your dietitian's advice seems sound. Those two dairy servings per day that she's asking you to eat are only around 100 calories each, same with the one egg plus whites. Because it's so much nutrition in a small portion, it's a more efficient, lower calorie, less bloating way to get protein than, say, adding more beans and lentils. Plus, digesting protein has a greater thermic effect, so even though you're adding some calories, you're also burning more to digest them.

I would say nope and nope to the "is it too much?" questions. That's a very small amount of food, but the nutrition in it can be life-altering if you're coming from a place of deficiency. In fact, if you are more consistent with the daily egg and dairy consumption, you might find that adding fish in fish form is unnecessary. Fish in pill form saved my brain from what felt like early-stage dementia. I had been taking algae omegas daily for months, but my body was clearly not converting them into enough EPA/DHA to work right. The symptoms I was having scared me to death, but they all went away within like a week of taking two 1200mg fish oil pills per day.

I agree too about things being fine until they aren't. In my 20s, going years without meat or fish was no problem. Low-fat was no problem. Low-calorie, ok, doable. Now, any of those would wreck me. Same with lack of sleep. I can't just push through without consequences the way I used to.

I love the way I eat though. I eat far more plants now than when I was a vegetarian, which is funny. I still eat meals that are vegan and have whole days that are vegetarian. Like, I may have cereal with soy milk and berries in the morning, followed by a super food smothie with pea protein powder, flax, chia, walnuts, and hemp seeds. Then, something like an omelet with cheese for lunch with veggies, sweet potato with butter and cinnamon, and fresh fruit. A couple hours after that, a greek yogurt and grapes, or a couple pieces of cheese and some cherries. Then, a little later, bean soup with crackers or whole wheat bread and more fruit and/or dessert. A day of eating like that is pretty normal. On other days, I may have chicken or fish for lunch or dinner.

I remember the moral struggle of adding back any kind of meat after years without it. What helped me was lions, any cat actually. They are pure carnivores who don't have the option of living on tofu. Snakes, same deal. Birds of prey need to eat prey. They are all perfectly designed, perfectly in sync with their environment. I don't judge or blame them because they need to eat other creatures in order to live and be healthy. I was able to give myself a little of the same grace.

This is a nutty tangent, but I believe that plants are conscious beings. Studies have shown that they communicate, feel pain, fight off attackers, and call out for help. God knows I name them, talk to them, and care for them like old friends. So, when it's time to eat one, I feel tremendous gratitude for the nourishment. I thank them for becoming a part of me. It sounds bonkers, but overall, it's a much healthier vibe than guilt or shame. I applied that same line of thinking to needing fish or chicken in order to avoid malnutrition. I just stay grateful and conscious of my place in the natural world, if any of that helps.